Shotgun vs. the Man-o-Sphere

manosphere

Be warned dear readers: this post contains personal admissions:

I’ve been harsh on the ladies of late – many of whom have publicly accused me of cowardice among a host of other unpleasant things.  It’s all because I’ve suggested men should take whatever measures necessary for curing our feminine wards of the ravishes of Jacobin wizardry.  To say it plain: I believe if you smack around a good woman she’ll give up her feminism.

The outcry has been horrendous to say the least.  I’ve spared my readers the majority of the comments.

My apologies to you harpies but, it’s not just me that feels this way.  Thousands of disgruntled would-be “alphas” are taking to the net to vent their frustrations against the matriarchy, prompting a movement known as “manosphere”.  These fellows are characterized by their profanity-filled posts written with hip lingo which are focused on all the short-comings of the weaker sex.

Many, like author Matt Forney, go so far as to suggest oppressed white men seek out mates among Asians who are supposedly more chaste, submissive, and generally more agreeable in every way than the average American harpy.

I understand the appeal of sexual adventurism in exotic locales – you can’t spend time in the Navy without feeling the allure of it. And I certainly understand the disgust towards feminism (which has thoroughly inundated well over 90 percent of American women).

But something about Forney’s article (and the manosphere in general) rubs me the wrong way. I want old Christian Europe, or nothing at all, and damn-it-all if I don’t intend to have it.

On the other hand, Terrys only love once, and the love of my life married another man years ago.  So what’s left for me other than crass hedonism?

Between a Quixotic fairy-tale and a hedonistic hard-place … that’s where I am.

Still, no amount of personal uncertainty can pave over the disgust I have when I read these man-o-sphere types disparage the fairer sex, or speak about them as if they’re on a level with the rest of us.  It’s this sort of egalitarianism the manosphere should be avoiding!  And however mangled daughters of Eve have become (and they’re pretty mangled), they’re always going to be the bearers of God’s creative beauty and winsome cleverness.

After all, God created everything else in the universe before He created women.  They’re His crowning achievement; more glorious than the Leviathan, more beautiful than the blue-ridge mountain ranges – more angelic than even the angels!  God has given man woman.  The second-greatest gift (next to Christ) ever given.

We ought to be ashamed if we abandon them to the ravages of the devil.

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19 Responses to Shotgun vs. the Man-o-Sphere

  1. There are a few good manosphere-type writers that I read, but they are usually strong on Christianity, especially Protestant.

    A.J.P.

  2. I understand why many men are angry. I sympathize with men in the manosphere if they fall under the following categories (I will be listing my disagreements with the whole thing immediately afterwards):

    1) They have been screwed over by the family courts after a divorce, getting the life sucked out of them financially by a woman who doesn’t want to play wife duty anymore (some men go to jail when they can’t afford this any longer, and some are saying it is part of the reason Robin Williams committed suicide…..just awful!).

    2) They had a mother who left their father when they were young, leaving them with no male figure in their lives.

    3) They have been used by women in past relationships by being forever condemned to the friend zone each time.

    4) They have lost their job to a woman who was less qualified.

    There may be other things, but these are the big four.

    BUT…..I also have some problems with the manosphere after spending so much time listening to the stories of men who are a part of it and trying to understand where they are coming from.

    1) I think there is a little too much blame directed at women in general. If we are going to recognize men as the more capable sex (and they ARE the more capable sex), then the flip side is that it makes little since to blame women for everything wrong in the world….(if we get a left leaning president, it is the fault of white women who vote………everything wrong with relationships is the fault of women entirely ……and this and that etc……).

    2) While there is some truth to the idea that there are too many women running after bad boys and alpha males, leaving too many good men stranded with no one, and that too many women want to marry up ….a little too far up, reaching for the millionaires, ……..the flip side to this, is that I see a lot of men trying to constantly go for women who are way out of their league in the looks department as well as the age department.

    A man who is a 3 in looks has no business ignoring women who are 3’s, 4’s, and 5’s in looks, trying to reach for the 9’s and 10’s constantly and then getting upset that he keeps getting rejected. When it comes to age, I see far too many men complaining on the internet who are over the age of 35, or 40, insisting that their brides be under 25.

    These attitudes seem to mostly be confined to the manosphere and pro white corners of the internet (in the case of men complaining…….the women who complain take up sections in Cosmopolitan magazine and on Oprah).

    I think our people in general of both sexes have absurdly insane expectations when looking for a mate. If you are fat, then you should count on your partner being fat. If you are above a certain age, then don’t count on getting a 21 year old mate (for men). If you are a blue collar woman, then you have no business demanding that your future husband be a doctor. If you have kids from a previous marriage, then expect your future partner to be similar, or at least allow for it. Our people need to be a little more realistic about this.

    Anyways, those are my thoughts. I hope I didn’t offend anyone. In closing, I would like to say that women are a product of the society that creates them. When you go the way of Rome, then don’t expect the women for the most part to continue to be perfect. Our people in general are degenerate right now, all around, ….both sexes are.

    • “Courtney”

      I like how you and “Shotgun” are already talking about how women’s capability is less than men’s, implying very strongly that it’s mostly up to men as a group to fix the structural problems. The Feminism and female rebellion is a symptom. Here is a good article from one of those Christian manosphere bloggers I mentioned http://freenortherner.com/2014/08/15/women-have-no-power/?theme=suits

      I was arguing with different men in the comments who didn’t want to accept that women weren’t capable as a group of doing the solution. Which, to me, isn’t very red-pill. See, nobody is saying that shaming female promiscuity, and especially female promiscuity, is the wrong thing to do. We’re saying that in order to get the institutions right, it’s going to a man’s job. Some “red-pill” people weren’t even ready to hear that, so I’m glad though not really surprised that people at this blog didn’t have such understandings.

      Best regards,

      A.J.P.

  3. A.J.P.,

    I look at it this way. If feminists want men and women to be equal, then they are hypocrites for demanding for men to be protectors in severe situations, and for treating women as victims in every single domestic (in the home) physical fight.

    The flip side, is that men on the far right realms of the internet are also hypocrites if they go to the opposite extreme. Neither group can have it both ways.

    As a woman, who is concerned with the future of my society and people, I have a lot more in common with men on the far right than feminists. Actually, that is an understatement. But, I am amazed at how often, especially in pro white circles (in the manosphere it is expected), the topic will turn into a rant against white women. I don’t see it as productive in any way, shape, or form. Some of the complaints about women are legitimate, but half, if not more, aren’t.

    Women are followers by nature. We go along with what is comfortable and the status quo. It is how God made women. It is actually very feminine, as opposed to feminist, for us to be like this. We have never been risk takers or fighters of revolutionary ideas, in general. And even though I am unique in that I share the revolutionary thoughts of the men on the far right, I most certainly don’t act like a fighter by any means.

    So, when it gets suggested that 90% of American women are or act like feminists, I am assuming this means that most of these women are going along with it because they don’t know better. And there are different degrees of this lemming behavior in different parts of the country.

    I think it is only a tiny percentage of women in this country who are radical feminists and who even label themselves as feminists. And, also, many men seem to be supporting feminism (in the mainstream, lemming, sense….not the radical sense). You wouldn’t believe the number of white men I have debated with, who thought my views about women and their roles, were “bigoted and hateful”.

    And as a side note, I think that this idea about Asian women being submissive, is a very outdated myth, going back to the days when even white women themselves were mostly still traditional. Women of any race are going to act exactly the same when you give them a long leash. Has anyone noticed how Asian women bark orders at their husbands all day, talking to them like they are children? I see it all the time, and it is because Asian women are given control of the household while the men work, and this hierarchy continues, even when the man comes home in the evening. A lot of Japanese men avoid their wives by staying out late.

    I think Asian women, traditionally, have always known how to lure white men with their charm, but the reason they would do it, is because they wanted something in return (American citizenship). It was for entirely selfish reasons. Women by nature of any race, are more selfish than men are, and I am trying to figure out, evolutionarily, what purpose this trait served back when homo sapiens were still living in caves. Maybe, because men had larger responsibilities and had to look out for the “good of the group”.

    I even saw something on a documentary once, that made me laugh. It was a documentary about the slums in India, and it was showing people living in shacks. In one shack, the woman kept fussing at her husband, and so he finally left and went to go hang out with some men in order to avoid her. I wonder if this is why, in Indian culture, the man will walk 5 feet in front of his wife when they go for a walk.

    Women have the potential to act the same everywhere, which is why the men traditionally in most societies have put certain boundaries in place, keeping their women under control. There are even Bible verses about this sort of thing.

  4. “Courtney” You wrote that the myth of Asian women being submissive is a side note but I think it might be more important than that, since you wrote that it’s wrong to have rants against white women. Think about it like this, if the women are out of control then it makes sense to build up the understanding that the women have gone wrong. Then, if it’s mostly white men using the English-speaking internet, then it’s much better for them to have “rants” against white women, or Western women if you want to be more cultural, or white if you emphasise the genetics. White men should look out for the behaviour of white women more than the others is what I’m getting at…

    As long as there aren’t men holding up Asian women as better, white men going on lengthy critiques of women, especially white women, is good. If Asian women are being held up as an alternative, then that is bad and destructive. Reading “Shotgun”‘s article here, he touches on the same thing regarding men going out-of-bounds regarding non-white women.

    Through the prophets, as God is shown to chastise and punish men at the national level for misdeeds and thus shows his fatherly love, so must men show love for women by chastising them at the community level. It’s the only loving thing to do in this case.

    Good on you, “Courtney,” bringing up the idea of equality, and showing that feminists are inconsistent. Indeed, the healthy and traditional way is that women aren’t equal in the public sphere, and such equality can only really be had by white Christian men who are coming from a similar social class. A women’s sphere is the home and she has more control there, where the rules and dynamics are radically different from public life.

    Equality, to the extent that it is possible, is only to be had in the ranks of one’s own social peers and then, in public, is had only for white Christian men. This necessarily excludes women, coloureds, youths, and of course heathens or other infidels. There might even be a gradient of trust given to different types of religious people, such as Mormons or papists. This idea of equality is very tricky but it should get more attention and it seems that it, too often, gets flattened by a mob of wanna-be aristocrats… It should be understood that there are different levels and degrees of people and that one of them fits us to be social peers with, speaking as a man.

    Best regards

    • Alan, my apologies. Upon further reflection, I think you were referring to the following paragraph I wrote:

      “As a woman, who is concerned with the future of my society and people, I have a lot more in common with men on the far right than feminists. Actually, that is an understatement. But, I am amazed at how often, especially in pro white circles (in the manosphere it is expected), the topic will turn into a rant against white women. I don’t see it as productive in any way, shape, or form. Some of the complaints about women are legitimate, but half, if not more, aren’t.”

      What I meant there was how I have noticed that even under articles on pro white websites that have nothing to do with white women, the discussion, about a third of the time, somehow goes in the direction of “white women this” and “white women that” even when it has nothing to do with the article at all.

      I can see how the second to the last sentence in the paragraph I quote above can be taken out of context, especially if you know nothing about me and my views on this. But yes, what I meant by that was strictly in regards to conversations that go in the direction of complaining about white women, even when the original topic in the article has nothing to do with women at all.

      • One man’s disparagement is another man’s critique. I don’t believe men should be restricted to discussing women only when it’s on-topic either, with very few exceptions. The Internet can be a rough place, but that’s how some areas of life are.

        A.J.P.

      • courtneyfromalabama says:

        Alan, to clarify again, I didn’t say men should be restricted from discussing women when it isn’t on topic. I was not saying the act in itself was wrong. I said that I see it far too often and the accusations against women that come up at that point are usually quite unfair and unproductive.

        I was just giving another example to support my overall premise in this discussion: that far too often on pro white and manosphere websites, the criticisms of women are petty and too one sided.

        At the beginning of this discussion you and I were in agreement that men to an extent need to be held to a higher standard, being the sex that is more capable. I really think at this point I am confused as to where this discussion is going and what it is that we are disagreeing on. Please forgive me, but I think this is a good time for me to back out. :-)

      • I don’t think it’s that confusing. You’re saying you don’t like the complaints, but that you’re not about to start demanding that they stop. I’m saying that the complaining is good. So we disagree there.

        However, “Courtney,” we are in agreement (as is “Shotgun” in his blogpost above) that non-white women shouldn’t be recommended to white men.

        I believe that is a charitable representation of your views, even if we differ on our understanding of the issues. Wouldn’t you agree?

        Best regards,

        A.J.P.

      • courtneyfromalabama says:

        Alan, let me ask you this…..if most white men are going along with feminism in a lemming manner, like for instance, they go along with the idea of women working, do you really think it is fair for men on the internet to only be blaming white women for the fact that white women are currently working? Same with voting?

        That right there is why I am confused with where we are in disagreement. You said at the beginning that men should be held to a higher standard and that feminism is simply a symptom of deeper problems in white society. Should white women be the only segment of society that gets blamed for the current state of white relationships?

        That is what I have been trying to get at the entire time. I have listed specific types of complaints about white women that I don’t like. On the other hand, I am confused right now as to what types of comments you keep claiming are okay. When we get that cleared up then I think there will be no confusion left on my part and we can either agree to disagree on the matter or I might find out that we agree on more than I assumed. :)

  5. Alan,

    Forgive me, but I am a little confused now. I didn’t say that white men shouldn’t be criticizing their women. I said that there is constructive criticism and then there is criticism which is destructive.

    Most men in the pro white cause make valid points about white women when they critique them. But then they also spend a great amount of time criticizing white men too, as they should, as white men are the natural God given leaders of white society, and also the more capable sex who should be held to a higher standard. As you said in your first posts, there are things to hold men accountable for (politics, big picture issues etc…) and then there are things to hold women accountable for (sexuality, certain domestic issues).

    But, unfortunately, there are also a lot of complaints on the internet coming from white men that aren’t constructive. I don’t think they reflect the views of most of the great men taking up the pro white cause, but they tend to take up about a third of the space in comment forums on pro white websites. I am speaking of comments along the lines of “why are white women so stupid?” and ” how can we go on as a race when we have women like this?” and “most white women are sluts who sleep with blacks”. And yes, these discussions at times also go in the “Asian women are better” direction.

    I hope that clarifies. It isn’t my intent to come on here and criticize men or to start some war. But Shotgun opened up the floor on an important topic, and so I just thought I would give some honest input on the matter. I sympathize with a lot of men in the manosphere, but then there are unfortunately a lot of complaints I see that I don’t consider legitimate.

    Again, I hope this clarifies any misunderstandings.

    Courtney

    • Maybe the other ones are invalid, “Courtney.” But a complaint like this one – ” how can we go on as a race when we have women like this?” makes sense. Men hate to see women being immoral, it’s really hard on us. I suppose it’s the same for women who see men behaving badly, though. Still, we have to remember that moralty and healthy societies arise out of the actions of individuals. At this point, there is a accumulation of so many misdeeds that white society is going under almost everywhere with few exceptions which could even be changing for the worse in the future. That’s not an exaggeration but it’s the reality of the trajectory that the white race is on.

      But, is this a war that you’re starting, “Courtney”? No, I wouldn’t say so. If it was I would be using so many ad hominems that I would be giving us Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, seriously you should see me in “shell shock” after particularly vicious flame wars. It’s quite literally stunning, but as for our conversation here I do like to go on and to make rhetorical points. I’m trying to work into an effective niche for pro-white politics, so that’s why… I noticed you were also writing a lot and you shouldn’t expect me to lag too far behind! Yes, I’ve found this conversation to be, on the whole, quite interesting.

      I heard you on the Political Cesspool last night giving encouragement. Keep it up!

      Best regards,

      A.J.P.

  6. civil rights apostate says:

    That suggestion from the manosphere about Asians was foolish. I do not want Asian children, and I could not live with an Asian wife. White Christian girl for me, or I’ll be a bachelor all my life.

  7. rae9582 says:

    The blogger known as The Thinking Housewife (who is very anti-feminist) criticized the ‘manosphere’ a few years ago and got quite a barrage of very rough criticism from that group. I was a blogger (and female) at the time and I guess I learned my lesson that it was not wise to dare to criticize the masculinist bloggers lest I get the same treatment.

    I am definitely not a feminist, much less a misandrist. I can and do defend men when women bash males.

    But there is a problem when so many men (including an older relative of mine, sadly) bluntly state that they will not have an American wife or even a White wife, and choose to find a mail-order Filipina or Thai woman, or perhaps even a Latina. Recently on the ‘conservative’ forum, Free Republic, there was a discussion of an article about White men with ‘Yellow Fever’ — that was the very term used by the writer, not my choice of words. The article had 150+ comments when I last read it, and maybe ONE lone man defended White women. The rest said Asian women were better looking, more feminine, and slower to age. Some said they would never marry a White; some said they had White wives but thought Asians were superior as potential wives. If this is truly how we stand with this open warfare between the sexes then things look very bleak for the future of our people.

    As I’ve pointed out elsewhere (in vain, it seems) White men are statistically shown to marry outside their race more often than White women. For centuries White men have married women of many non-White groups, especially military or seafaring men, and in effect, this contributed to chain migration of the wife’s relatives, and voila, a colony of whatever race begins here in the states. I think men perceive that there is far more black male/White female intermarriage, or perhaps they think it is only miscegenation when one partner is black, especially a black male. It appears they think some kinds of nonwhites are acceptable and can be ‘absorbed’ into our folk. Asians, Islander women, American Indians and Hispanics, usually.
    Some justify Asian wives by saying ”well, they have high IQs so our kids will be smart.”

    Now, don’t flame me, gentlemen, please. I am on your side generally and I just would like to see a truce between the sexes. Our folk can’t continue if our men and women loathe each other or blame each other. I am sure that this kind of male-female warfare is not in the Lord’s plan for us. If nonbelievers behave this way, surely Christians and KInists should not.

    • courtneyfromalabama says:

      rae9582,

      I have been treated the same way. It is very rare for anyone to call me a feminist but the few times I have been called such, it has been from manosphere faithful and from certain segments of the pro white cause. These men can make the most viscious and unfair comments about white women, and just because I dare to disagree, I get called a feminist. It hurts me badly to be called that because, like you, I spend so much time defending white men as well as constantly
      commenting on their superior attributes compared to women. It makes me not
      want to bother anymore.

  8. I think most man-o-sphere types are more interested in illicit sexual unions than they are with starting traditional families; so it makes sense for them to prefer Asians or other foreign women. They don’t require the commitment a good white woman demands.

    Both manosphere and feminism are rebellions against a Godly social order.

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